yeah this just nuts.... i definitely think they needed to use force to stop this guy but he probably didnt need to get shot 15 times. like once/twice in the leg would have probably worked too.
whenever you hear stories like this, its always some outrageous number of shots, 15 in this case. obviously the intent of those officers was to kill...i've been told by a gun enthusiast that officers are trained in putting dangerous suspects down by using non lethal force, including "shooting people in the leg," but i say BS...not only do I argue that a shot in the leg could still kill, but say for example a suspect is high on pcp, a shot in the leg may not even be enough to bring them down. In my opinion...The police only shoot to kill, if a man survives 15 gunshots from close range then good for him.
i'm sure i could google whether or not police are trained to aim for the leg but i don't care...this kid was so NRA and gun rights, it wasn't even worth trying to have a conversation with him.
obviously whatever the police do, it will be scrutinized, there was a segment on the new show, Totally Biased with Kamau Bell, where he calls out NYPD's policy of "stop and frisk" which gives the nypd the right to stop and frisk anyone without probable cause...
New York is one of the most populated cities in the world, and therefore has one of largest police departments...their problems are always coming to light(see 99 percent protest videos on youtube)...and usually some scapegoat take the fall...a fall being a full pension retirement...i don't actually have a fact of that and now have gotten well off topic....i'm sure they'll stick to the story that the guy came at them with a knife and felt in danger and therefore had to kill him..
bottom line, I think that they could have brought this guy down at some point without needing to back him against a wall where clearly he has no where to go except towards police which then gives the police the right to shoot him 15 times....i would assume this man was incompetent and was mentally ill or high...i don't think our society should treat sick people by shooting them 15 times
while attempting to make a coherent comment above I received a phone alert about the texas A and M shooting, don't have the details but obviously terrible...will be interesting to see how obama and romney answer gun control questions during their debates
horrible policing. your letting this man run the show...he didnt have a bomb..he had a knife. (which he did cut someone in the face with) how ludacris does it look watching one guy lead a half dozen cops, guns drawn, down one of the most densely populated streets in america. results will come, but the way he was jumping around and screaming, it wouldnt be a shocker if he was on one or more drugs.
news report i saw said pepper spray was used multiple times, and the guy keep coming- which works into eid's comment about if he was on some serious drugs, hes not going to react normally to their attempts.
all the reports say that the shots came from multiple officers, not one, which goes wit the story that he "attacked" one of the officers with the knife. i think we are all agreeing...he didnt need 15 shots and it would have been best had he been subdued with a few shots to drop him, not to kill him.
that being said, just to to throw the devils advocate perspective into the mix...your the senior officer leading this team of gun yielding police down the street after this target, already suspected of cutting someone in the face, (assault w deadly weapon) and failure to follow police orders...you have tried and failed to neutralize subject with pepper spray and while he continues to parade through one of the highest concentrations of tourists in the 5 boroughs he lunges at you with the knife. your entire team of police have the tension on the trigger and you pull it first, setting off a barrage of 2-3 shots from 4-5 different officers on an attacking suspect. are these guys that good with guns that if someone takes a quick step and lung that they can hit his arm and not his lung/heart? what is the alternative action with the suspect at close range, intending to harm you with a knife? its easy to be super critical of polices action/reactions after the fact. no one but the officers pursuing the subject down the street felt the same intensity and were in the heat of hte moment. but in my opinion ridiculous to turn this into a racial story about cops senselessly killing a black man with 15 kill shots in front of audience of bystanders.
Yeah, I don't think the number of shots fired is really at issue. If there are 10 cops guns drawn and the guy rush's one of them then they are all going to fire, some might fire twice. I think the real question is whether or not there should have been other non-lethal methods employed long before the shooting needed to happen.
Bean bags, tasers, etc...why weren't these attempted?
i'm sure we're all in agreement that a police officer has the right to shoot (kill) someone in order to save their life or someone elses....obviously we don't know the circumstances...this guy could have been trying to get killed (suicide by police)
andy and mike bring up good points.... watching 20 cops run down the street, there just had to have been a better way to stop this guy.
considering that the shooting happened on the side walk against a building means that the cops cornered him, closed some streets etc and put this person in a position where he had no choice but to go at police...doesn't mean a police should have been stabbed in order to apprehend this guy...but begs the question "where they getting tired of chasing this guy and wanted to end the situation"
knife woulds can kill...but honestly chasing this guy around for 20 more minutes until he tires out...or shoot him once you corner him..."horrible policing"
Guns aren't as precise as you guys are giving them credit, there's been instances where a single .22 round will kill and others where someone is shot multiple times with a much more powerful round and is unfazed. Cops aren't trained to take someone down with a few shots to the leg, first because hitting a moving target that precisely in a stressful situation is all but impossible and second because the only way to ensure that someone is not a threat is to kill them as cleanly and quickly as possible. I'm not one to defend the police but if I was a cop and I saw a man running around with a knife in a populated area and I know he has not responded to pepper spray. I would probably do the same. Keep in mind that the knife wielding maniac is the bad guy, if he didn't want to get shot he could have stopped at any time, it's not as though the police surprised him, they had their guns on him for a while.
9 comments:
yeah this just nuts.... i definitely think they needed to use force to stop this guy but he probably didnt need to get shot 15 times. like once/twice in the leg would have probably worked too.
whenever you hear stories like this, its always some outrageous number of shots, 15 in this case. obviously the intent of those officers was to kill...i've been told by a gun enthusiast that officers are trained in putting dangerous suspects down by using non lethal force, including "shooting people in the leg," but i say BS...not only do I argue that a shot in the leg could still kill, but say for example a suspect is high on pcp, a shot in the leg may not even be enough to bring them down.
In my opinion...The police only shoot to kill, if a man survives 15 gunshots from close range then good for him.
i'm sure i could google whether or not police are trained to aim for the leg but i don't care...this kid was so NRA and gun rights, it wasn't even worth trying to have a conversation with him.
obviously whatever the police do, it will be scrutinized, there was a segment on the new show, Totally Biased with Kamau Bell, where he calls out NYPD's policy of "stop and frisk" which gives the nypd the right to stop and frisk anyone without probable cause...
New York is one of the most populated cities in the world, and therefore has one of largest police departments...their problems are always coming to light(see 99 percent protest videos on youtube)...and usually some scapegoat take the fall...a fall being a full pension retirement...i don't actually have a fact of that and now have gotten well off topic....i'm sure they'll stick to the story that the guy came at them with a knife and felt in danger and therefore had to kill him..
bottom line, I think that they could have brought this guy down at some point without needing to back him against a wall where clearly he has no where to go except towards police which then gives the police the right to shoot him 15 times....i would assume this man was incompetent and was mentally ill or high...i don't think our society should treat sick people by shooting them 15 times
while attempting to make a coherent comment above I received a phone alert about the texas A and M shooting, don't have the details but obviously terrible...will be interesting to see how obama and romney answer gun control questions during their debates
ha 99 percent protest = occupy wallstreet....already forgot the name
do we know more about the circumstances? i'm with eid - it seems logical that he could have been detained in another, non-lethal fashion.
horrible policing. your letting this man run the show...he didnt have a bomb..he had a knife. (which he did cut someone in the face with) how ludacris does it look watching one guy lead a half dozen cops, guns drawn, down one of the most densely populated streets in america. results will come, but the way he was jumping around and screaming, it wouldnt be a shocker if he was on one or more drugs.
news report i saw said pepper spray was used multiple times, and the guy keep coming- which works into eid's comment about if he was on some serious drugs, hes not going to react normally to their attempts.
all the reports say that the shots came from multiple officers, not one, which goes wit the story that he "attacked" one of the officers with the knife. i think we are all agreeing...he didnt need 15 shots and it would have been best had he been subdued with a few shots to drop him, not to kill him.
that being said, just to to throw the devils advocate perspective into the mix...your the senior officer leading this team of gun yielding police down the street after this target, already suspected of cutting someone in the face, (assault w deadly weapon) and failure to follow police orders...you have tried and failed to neutralize subject with pepper spray and while he continues to parade through one of the highest concentrations of tourists in the 5 boroughs he lunges at you with the knife. your entire team of police have the tension on the trigger and you pull it first, setting off a barrage of 2-3 shots from 4-5 different officers on an attacking suspect. are these guys that good with guns that if someone takes a quick step and lung that they can hit his arm and not his lung/heart? what is the alternative action with the suspect at close range, intending to harm you with a knife? its easy to be super critical of polices action/reactions after the fact. no one but the officers pursuing the subject down the street felt the same intensity and were in the heat of hte moment. but in my opinion ridiculous to turn this into a racial story about cops senselessly killing a black man with 15 kill shots in front of audience of bystanders.
Yeah, I don't think the number of shots fired is really at issue. If there are 10 cops guns drawn and the guy rush's one of them then they are all going to fire, some might fire twice. I think the real question is whether or not there should have been other non-lethal methods employed long before the shooting needed to happen.
Bean bags, tasers, etc...why weren't these attempted?
i'm sure we're all in agreement that a police officer has the right to shoot (kill) someone in order to save their life or someone elses....obviously we don't know the circumstances...this guy could have been trying to get killed (suicide by police)
andy and mike bring up good points....
watching 20 cops run down the street, there just had to have been a better way to stop this guy.
considering that the shooting happened on the side walk against a building means that the cops cornered him, closed some streets etc and put this person in a position where he had no choice but to go at police...doesn't mean a police should have been stabbed in order to apprehend this guy...but begs the question "where they getting tired of chasing this guy and wanted to end the situation"
knife woulds can kill...but honestly chasing this guy around for 20 more minutes until he tires out...or shoot him once you corner him..."horrible policing"
Guns aren't as precise as you guys are giving them credit, there's been instances where a single .22 round will kill and others where someone is shot multiple times with a much more powerful round and is unfazed. Cops aren't trained to take someone down with a few shots to the leg, first because hitting a moving target that precisely in a stressful situation is all but impossible and second because the only way to ensure that someone is not a threat is to kill them as cleanly and quickly as possible. I'm not one to defend the police but if I was a cop and I saw a man running around with a knife in a populated area and I know he has not responded to pepper spray. I would probably do the same. Keep in mind that the knife wielding maniac is the bad guy, if he didn't want to get shot he could have stopped at any time, it's not as though the police surprised him, they had their guns on him for a while.
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